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Why did men stop wearing high heels?

Discussion in 'Podiatry Trivia' started by Mark Russell, Jan 25, 2013.

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  1. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Ben Hur

    To be brutally honest I find some of your comments unnecesarily personal and quite offensive. Now I am too old to fall out with you but I have been in this business for over forty years and seen a few things. I just happen to have in that time retrained several times so my intellectual perspective is wide.

    My contributions (which are often asked for as opposed to be volunteered) are based in historical fact and reflect informed opinion as well as given in good faith . If you don't agree with me, fine.

    toeslayer
     
  2. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Matthew,

    I couldn`t disagree more. It is NOT our job to condescendingly tell our patients how to live their lives, including their choice of footwear. Whilst it is our job to explain how footwear can be a contributing factor to low limb pathology and offer advice, if requested, we are not the shoe police.

    I wear high heels (leather trousers just don`t do it with flat, lace-ups). I also indulge in other `lifestyle` choices that you overtly disapprove of. I am also well aware of the effects of these choices that I make. But that is what it is, Matthew. My choice.
     
  3. I was considering becoming a non-smoking, tee-total, vegan, creationist, vibram five finger wearing, exercise addicted podiatrist... but I've gone right off the idea since reading Matthew's posts here.
     
  4. Me too. Have given up the idea of being a revolutionary anarchist and have pledged unstinting subservience to the Illuminati on the basis of Matthew's intolerant rants. And I've started wearing heels again....
     
  5. Cameron:

    We both have been around for a few years.

    Whether you remember or not, about about 17 years ago, you sent me some information, by snail mail, on the Glasgow Rangers for my 13 year old son who was playing on a soccer (football) team called the Elk Grove Rangers. My son is now 30 and has three children of his own. Time does fly.

    That was a great introducion...and I wanted to again thank you for that kind gesture. It meant a lot to both of us.:drinks
     
  6. Me too. But which ones to choose...
    "Hey, sexy boots
    Get on your boots, yeah...

    Women are the future
    Hold the big revelations"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDNilZbZg8
     

    Attached Files:

  7. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Toeslayer:

    No doubt I should be careful in the way I respond to your reasoning based on the light of the above post. Toeslayer, my response to your views were in no way meant to be "offensive" - you have chosen to see it that way. As for "personal", well I am addressing your (personal) views (quoting them)... views of which I struggle to understand the logic behind... views that you have not substantiated through evidence - albeit a historical perspective, of which is not the nature of my concern (which being of an injury/pathology perspective). However, I do apologise if my above comments (often in tongue n' cheek [out of frustration - I'll admit]) did incite these feelings. Maybe the fact that we are coming from different perspectives is causing the rift. I've said it before, this writing type medium isn't the best in conveying true intentions - whether that be in logic or sentiments.

    Yes, you seem to have far more experience than I - you appear to have been engaged in this "business" (of Podiatry?) longer than I've been alive. As valuable experience is, it doesn't mean I should leave your reasoning unquestioned or accept it. It also shouldn't mean that my relative inexperience (compared to yours) is also not of value or valid in the context of pathology (on a Podiatry forum). Yes we may have to agree to disagree on the legitimacy of high heels for the wellbeing of humans. Yes, I should probably be more mindful of phrasing my concerns with issues/logic/reasoning I find frustrating. I have found your historical knowledge on other past topics interesting & will still value your input in future.

    Kind regards,
    Matt.
     
  8. That being said, podiatrists must speak up and recommend to women who are obviously hurting themselves with the shoes they choose to wear that their pain and pathology will persist until they start making better shoe choices for themselves. I want my patients to know, in very clear terms, that it is they that are responsible for any treatment failure that may occur due to their choosing to continue injuring themselves by wearing certain types of shoes, and this choice of theirs is not my treatment failure: it is their failure to follow my recommendations. Done with a smile and a genuine concern for their well-being, making healthy shoe choice recommendations to my patients is a part of my daily routine in my office, as it should be in other podiatrist's offices.
     
  9. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Big sigh :confused:

    Blinda, I (respectfully) couldn't disagree more with your above interpretation. I have NOT & WILL NOT (excuse the caps) "condescendingly" tell my patients how to live their lives (it is you that have chosen to see it this way - for whatever reason). As you suggested, I offer the advice (& only if the issue arises) - that is it. I in no way act as the "shoe police". Where have I given you this impression... in fact where have I given you the impression I am condescending towards my patents? Now, the views I express on this medical based Podiatry forum dialoguing with Podiatry peers are of a different nature & context to that I have between my patients. I'm sure you understand this - this nature/context of views written within this forum between peers of which should be clearly evident within the thousands of posts & threads by many Podiatrists (including yourself) are in many cases of a different sentiment when discussing (i.e. the frustrations thereof) Podiatry/clinical related issues than that within a patient/practitioner setting. Besides, it wouldn't bother me if my patients saw what I wrote here - I have their best interest at heart... yet within the clinic setting I express my concerns as sincerely as possible (that's my duty of care). Now can this be said with some of the views from other Podiatrist on some other threads I've come across over the years pertaining to their clinical experiences/frustrations?

    Too right Blinda - that is your choice... & where have I told you otherwise - or criticized your choice? I'm not too sure of the other "lifestyle choices" you have in mind but none of what I have said was personally intended for you (or anybody on this forum). It was stated in a general sense (used as analogies) based on the potential harm certain lifestyle choices can cause (based on scientific/medical evidence mind you) within the context of the pathological harm high heel shoes can create. It was certainly not meant to criticize or make anybody feel guilty about their own lifestyle - of which mind you I have no idea of i.e. I have no idea of your lifestyle Blinda other than that you wear high heels (of which you are happy to provide photographic evidence of).

    The fact is I don't believe high heel shoes are conducive for humans i.e. you, me & our patients - that's it. Yes, I have used a few analogies along the way pertaining to other potential adverse lifestyle choices. For Pete's sake, I'm a Podiatrist on a Podiatry forum expressing concern over a certain type of footwear like others have done within the barefoot related threads... anybody would think I was a vegan on a meatlovers forum (whoops sorry - potential sensitive analogy) going by the reaction I'm getting here.

    The fact is I'm sincere... & have provided reasoning/evidence for my concerns... albeit, apparently rocked the status quo :empathy: (maybe there is another reason, which I'll leave alone).
     
  10. Do you ever recommend to patients that it may be beneficial for them to increase the heel height differential of their shoes? I do.
     
  11. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I agree, Kevin (although `better` is quite subjective; Better looking? Better for your health? Better for making you feel sexy?;)). We certainly can`t ignore the cause of that persistant HD, MN, "metatarsalgia" :eek:, etc, particularly when the pt seeks our help and advice. It would be remiss to not advise every patient that their footwear may be a contributing factor to pathology. In fact, I have had it said on more than a few occasions "my previous shiropodist didn`t tell me why that corn keeps coming back".....However, once I have explained causality it is up to the pt whether they decide to change footwear, wear orthoses, or make adjustments. As you eruditely remarked; it is their choice at the end of the day. No word of a lie. Truth be told. I`m not gonna lie to you.
     
  12. I just recommended a slightly higher heel height differential shoe for a female patient about 5 minutes ago that has right posterior tibial tendinitis.

    Increasing heel height differential of shoes often works well for many foot and lower extremity pathologies including plantar fasciitis, posterior tibial tendinitis/dysfunction, peroneal tendinitis/tendinopathy, Achilles tendinitis and sinus tarsitis/sinus tarsi syndrome, to name a few.

    Patients need to be educated on the biomechanics of their pathology so that they can make more healthy shoe choices. If they must wear fashionable shoes at work, often times I have them wear their running/walking shoes (i.e. trainers) to and from work and at work when they are not with clients and only wear their fashionable shoes when they are meeting with clients. In addition, I always offer to my patients that I would be happy to write them an excuse to their employer to allow them to wear athletic shoes at work so that they can more rapidly heal their specific pathologies. Many women find that this one suggestion, that they wear more comfortable shoes at work, is often the difference between them being in pain daily and them having no pain at all.
     
  13. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Be assured, Matthew; I feel no guilt. I guess it`s the sanctimonious tone, that gets my back up. That, and the deflective parenthesised suggestions... Nothing personal, but I won`t be responding or reading your posts henceforth as I have chosen to ignore you.
     
  14. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Simon & Mark:

    Yes guys, I do stand up for what I believe for (at least you know where I stand). Yes Simon, I don't smoke (for good reason), I am a vegan (for good reason), I don't believe in evolution (for good reason), I do exercise (for good reason) - however I wouldn't say I'm addicted to it (the drug tends to wear off after so many years). Yea, I do own a couple of pairs of Vibram 5 Fingers (wouldn't any sincere running Podiatrist keen to fully understand the issues involved?). Once again, I am sincere in wanting to find the answers, to provide the best feedback I can as a runner & a Podiatrist... heaven forbid (it sometimes appears) share such views on this forum. This goes to all interests of mine i.e. diet, lifestyle, "Origin/development of life". However, I do most of my 150 km + per week running (because I would like to be successful) in a low heel to forefoot midsole running shoe (i.e. Nike Free 3.0 & Brooks Pure Connect - both with a 4mm drop).

    Yes Mark, you may see me as a "revolutionary anarchist" but hey, with all the rubbish we find in this world... the deceit, misinformation, deception, corruption, destruction of freedom/rights, destruction of the environment, our food & water source....... placing you & I... our wellbeing & that of the planet at risk - sincere concerns relating to these issues will be seen in such a manner (i.e. "revolutionary anarchist"). As far as intolerance is concerned - well that's your perspective based on your point of view & world view. I see much intolerance also (& from many) but because I state a different perspective, a differing viewpoint to that of the status quo - it is bound to raise some controversy. But hey, who would have thought about high heels (habitual high heel wearing) of all topics on a Podiatry forum?

    Yes Simon & Mark, my above positions of which you have highlighted are potentially controversial - but never - repeat - never have I attempted to impose my beliefs on others. I can understand that some may choose to see it that way as these issues can be confronting - but it is never my intention. These positions have surfaced in light of posts/threads... of which some (in fact only one - that being the origin/development of life) have been long & controversial; based on the fact that I have been asked questions... & I have provided the courtesy of an answer - a sincere answer mind you. Answers to positions I personally feel are potentially beneficial for optimal health & wellbeing. Answers of which I have always provided reason/evidence for (empirical scientific evidence). You are certainly entitled to take it or leave it.

    I have in the past have had passionate discussions (debates?) with both of you. Is it this & my above standing on the above issues lead/influence your sentiments (or even dislike of me)? Just curious.
     
  15. No, it's the condescending and sanctimonious tone of your writing. Like Blinda, I'm now adding you to my ignore list.
     
  16. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Not to mention the quoting out of context....

    Bill Liggins
     
  17. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Yes Kevin, does this include habitual high heel wearing as I have been stating throughout this thread... & you have stated in an article as cited in post #37.


    Blinda, I have not alluded "guilt" upon you at all. The fact you feel this way raises questions on your comprehension - biased at that (interpretation). The fact you feel my comments are "sanctimonious" is also related to the attitude in which you choose to interpret my comments. The above is there for all to see - in black & white (no, it's brown) - except for the part that you highlighted in red (for some reason) i.e. "for whatever reason" (yes, exactly that - for whatever reason - you tell me) as well as i.e. "maybe there is another reason, which I'll leave alone" (of which you have no idea what I was referring - that being myself having differing views of which many people don't like being different to the status quo). Nothing about you personally Blinda. I thus subsequently question if you're being paranoid. As for the reference pertaining to i.e. "other Podiatrist on some other threads I've come across over the years pertaining to their clinical experiences/frustrations" (other Podiatrists I've come across have stated questionable things pertaining to their clinical experiences of which they would not reveal in a patient setting)... what's the issue with this? - it's a fact - a trend that occurs of this forum to substantiate the difference between forum writing sentiments & views expressed with a clinic setting.

    However, I have asked you relevant questions in an attempt to clear the air - you haven't answered them. I see no point now asking why not based on the above. However, I won't bother speculating & jumping to conclusions as you have obviously done.

    I stand by everything I've said Blinda & your comprehension/conduct/accusations are there in light of it. Hence, likewise... "Nothing personal, but I won't be responding or reading your posts henceforth as I have chosen to ignore you ".


    Yes same goes for you too Simon (poor comprehension, biasness). Not to mention the poor professional conduct, bad language & foul innuendos of the past. Besides, do you honestly think I care? The two of you have no doubt done me a favour - I have far more productive & enlightening things to spend my time on than to have a battle of wits with unarmed individuals.

    Hey Bill, if you're going to make accusations - provide evidence. I always do. Don't just state something without the evidence to back it up. Oh, & make sure you don't quote out of context in doing so!

    Once again, you'd had thought... controversy over high heels on what is suppose to be an evidence/medical based Podiatry forum! Oh, & I'm not talking about temporarily raising the heel a wee bit to offload forces to an underlying pathology i.e. Achilles Tendinosis, Sinus tarsi Syndrome. The issue here is habitual high heel wearing... & my opinion is that they are not conducive to health & wellbeing within a Podiatry context - period. Frankly, people (Podiatrists) here can take it or leave it - no big deal... just don't provide pseudoscientific non-evidence based reasoning & not expect it to be questioned.
     
  18. Refreshing.:drinks
     
  19. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Yep, on a Monday too. Whatever next, whistling on a Tuesday? :drinks
     
  20. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Yep, the "ignore list" message works guys :drinks... so does the quote function (I mean really, how childish :wacko:). Once again, do you honestly think I care? We've no doubt done each other a big favour based on the above dialogue. So there, something productive has come from this thread after all. Life's too short to be stuffing around on such puerile issues :deadhorse: !

    PS... friendly tip - please remember, the ignore feature only works when you're logged in. Hmmm... that's probably a tip to myself ;) :sinking:.
     
  21. Or the plagiarism...
     
  22. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Dear Matt,

    There is no doubt that you are very passionate about the things that you believe in but that passion seems to generate a lot of what others (significant, intelligent, worldly, mature people) interpret as frustration, possibly even rage and abuse.

    Some of the members of this forum are saying, 'Matt. youv'e got a problem in the way you deal with other people' (which really means you've got a problem with yourself).

    When they tell you this you can adopt your usual strategy of jumping onto the trusty charger of your own logic and trying to silence the voice of opposition or you can use some other strategy to put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and scream so loud that you are not open to the signals others are giving you.

    But there might be more mileage in it for you, in the long term, if you could put some faith in their views and say something along the lines of, I can't, at this stage, see any truth in what they are saying to me but out of respect for them, I accept the truth of what they are telling me and that I have a significant blind spot.

    If you can accept that you have a blind spot that would be a flying start. How you deal with it is up to you. Like the rest of us you've got the rest of your life to keep stepping on your own toes or to devlop.

    On this forum a strategy might be to imagine that all your postings are being published as articles in a scientific journal and even if you perceive that others are being derogatory your response can only be as you would expect to find in an article in a scientific journal, ie not a letter to a scientific journal.

    Don't bother responding directly to this post there is no value in that but I do look forward to reading your future posts.

    All of the people who seem to be responding to you negatively are giving you a good heads up. Take it as an act of love.

    Best wishes,

    Bill
     
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