Marigold therapy for bunions. An RCT

Excellent progress. Threads like this help keep me sane when homeopathy seems to be plugged by the SCP at every opportunity (see the annual conference programme for latest examples :bang

 

"Homoeopathy is a form of alternative medicine in which practitioners treat patients using highly diluted... preparations that are believed to cause healthy people to exhibit symptoms that are similar to those exhibited by the patient." (Wikipedia)

"Herbalism is a traditional medicinal or folk medicine practice based on the use of plants and plant extracts." (Wikipedia)

Marigold therapy by the application of a herbal past appears to be Herbalism NOT Homoeopathy or at best, if homoeopathic pills are taken, a combination of the two. The research appears to be conflated by this mixture allowing claims to be made for Homoeopathy that may well not be true.

The marigold plant has long been used in traditional medicine dating back to Roman times. This is because a pharmacological active substance is present in the herb and has nothing whatsoever to do with Homoeopathy.

I was bored this morning and wanted everyone else to suffer.

Cheers
Luke

 

Its like i'm looking in a mirror!


Indeed. The LHH uses both in combination. The traditional homeopathic part is patently absurd. Interesting that the use of Marigold is still represented as homeopathic though. For some reason homeopathy seems to have become more respectable than herbalism.

The Herbalism element is no less absurd based on the claims made for it and the way the "research" is carried out.

What's the substance and what is its mechanism? How does it reduce the IM angle in an HAV? And if it is simply anti-inflammatory, is there any halfway decent evidence for the fact?

A distinction it shares with tre-panning and "bleeding" patients. ;-) . On the hierarchy of evidence "the romans used to do it" scores even lower than case studies or dodgy RCTs.

 

well said guys the patient should have taken an asprin in the 1st place, and they only cost 5 quid for a thousand . A little cheaper than a private consultation with a witch doctor plus the cost of the magic paste. just trying to convince my nextpatient of the magical effects of matabele gumbo beads. ps kate middleton uses them.

 

Hi

I tried to post a reply earlier but the wretched machine logged me out and the post was lost in the ether.

To summarise:

I have no bones that the homoeopathic treatment for HAV is nonsense, in fact homoeopathy in nonsense.

When a herbal remedy works it is because there is a pharmacologically active component in it.

Identifying the active component is costly in time and money. You have to identify the molecule, isolate it and analyse it. It requires good spectroscopy, the molecules are complex having several isomers. You have to find a synthetic pathway, test it in vivo and then in vitro. Few people can either do it or afford to do it.

Many of our current medications have there origins in plants. Marigold is a million miles from tre-panning and "bleeding".

No professional body which lays claim to a scientific base should promote or support homoeopathy, critical review maybe. It may lay claim to a body of knowledge but is that knowledge unique to it or is it shared by many others. Or is it a just a trade body or union.

Enough for now.

Cheers
Luke

 

First one must show it works.

Then one must show that it works because there is a pharmacologically active component in it rather than the placebo effect, the mechanical effect or any other effect.

Have either of these two contentions been seriously tested with marigold?

 

Trouble is, there are lots of different "marigolds". So, it depends...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_marigold

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/10/1650.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16372475
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367326X03000510

etc etc..

 

And lots of different actions as well it seems. Anti tumour, Wound healing and anti-inflammatory respectively.

 

I'm a Mexican marigold man myself: "It is also used by the Huichol, mixed with Nicotiana rustica (a potent wild tobacco), for its claimed psychotropic effects." Trying to cut down though, I wonder if they do patches?

 

Psychotropic patches would probably be too open to abuse. Using them to adhere dressings to a clinic full of ulcer patients would yield hilarious results!

 

In which case, I'm never going to be able to give up. Twenty Nicotiana Rustica Marigolds and a box of matches, please.

 

This thread belongs in the BREAK ROOM section.

 

Not sure, Steve. In the UK marigold therapy is heavily promoted in the Journal of the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists. Prior to it's demise the "Scientific" journal of the afore mentioned Society, published a paper claiming marigold ointment reduced hallux valgus.

Like or dislike it, marigold extracts are being explored for their clinical effects on a variety of pathologies. Robert noted the variety in studies that I quickly linked to: anti tumour, wound healing and anti-inflammatory respectively. So why is this a break room thread? Is it because smoking marigolds is funny? I'm hooked and trying to get off of this sh!t, it's no joke.

P.S. It's in the "Podiatry Trivia" section.

P.P.S. Me bunions are killing me.

 

"This wasn't what she had in mind when she signed up for marigold therapy"

Ok now it's for the Break Room

 

Hi All,

I just wanted to share my experience.......Having been introduced to Marigold therapy as an undergradate (back in 2001 now) I was very impressed with the results that I acheived. Granted, I never used it on HAVs, only on painful longstanding 'smoker's' corns ( just been reading another interesting thread). When I started work in the NHS I enquired about using Marigold therapy for some patients with these painful corns, unfortunately, maybe fortunately, I was unable to purchase the Marigold until I had been on an exspensive course in London and conducted some 'research' for them. This was not practicle on an NHS training budget for something with little or no evidence base.

A year or so later when undertaking my MSc I was asked to look at new devlopements within podiatry, I took this as an opportunity to explore the evidence behind Marigold therapy. Firstly, I found it very difficult to find the published research, a trip to the british library was the only way! A pattern was soon noticed with the research predominantly citing the same authors and when I found the research the claims were ridiculous (as mentioned above). I soon found that it lost all credibility for me as a treatment. I have not used the product since. Also, some of the publications that are citied in the later articles are no more than a few paragraphs of a case study in a little known journal.

It begs the question, if Marigold therapy is so amazing why does it seem (to me anyway) to be such a closed shop? I would have been happy to conduct an RCT on Marigold therapy - however I would have to have spent a large sum of my own money to undertake their workshop in order to be able to buy the product in the first place.

Rob

 

Hey Rob.

Same old story. We see this so often in biomechanics. An idea which may actually have some merit and be worth looking into is ruined by overinflated claims and dubious marketing tactics.

Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. Dubiously produced evidence is not evidence of a dubious concept. But it does make it hard to take something seriously.

 

I like Marigolds.

They do have some uses in "Companion Planting" for organic gardeners

MARIGOLDS: (Calendula): Given a lot of credit as a pest deterrent. Keeps soil free of bad nematodes; supposed to discourage many insects. Plant freely throughout the garden. The marigolds you choose must be a scented variety for them to work. One down side is that marigolds do attract spider mites and slugs.

French Marigold (T. patula) has roots that exude a substance which spreads in their immediate vicinity killing nematodes. For nematode control you want to plant dense areas of them. There have been some studies done that proved this nematode killing effect lasted for several years after the plants died back. These marigolds also help to deter whiteflies when planted around tomatoes and can be used in greenhouses for the same purpose. Whiteflies hate the smell of marigolds. Do not plant French marigolds next to bean plants.

Mexican marigold (T. minuta) is the most powerful of the insect repelling marigolds and may also overwhelm weed roots such as bind weed! It is said to repel the Mexican bean beetle and wild bunnies! Be careful it can have an herbicidal effect on some plants like beans and cabbage.

regards

Catfoot

 

On a serious note: How would Fluid Mechanics affect forces travelling through the body?

And, surely if force reduction/minimisation/redirection is the ideal for joint preservation - we should (by reason of common sense and self evidence) allow the information to act as a buffer to the force? [Note:- this is on a normal individual note a patient suffering from a CTD/RAD etc]

Which then leads me to my final question: If such an event is true, why would we desire at all to remove temporary inflammation either through pharam/homeo? As both would compromise the compensation mechanism rather than address the cause.

BW